Moshiach and Geulah

YaakovNathan wrote:Out of nowhere one of Eli's brothers said "The Baba Sali says the Jews already won the war!"

shloime wrote:

YaakovNathan wrote:Out of nowhere one of Eli's brothers said "The Baba Sali says the Jews already won the war!"

wow! any details? spiritual war? phyisical war? gog umagog?

For several weeks now, I've been preparing a post on the War of Gog and Magog, and how - according to the leading rabbis of the last 300 years - it will manifest itself. When I showed the Rebbe my findings, based predominantly on the works of the Vilna Gaon and Rebbe Nachman of Breslev, the Melitzer looked up from his Gemorra and said, "No need to print that article, Lazer; the war is already over!"

(http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_bea ... gog_t.html)

A flood of water will go all the way up above all the buildings. Jews (including non-religious Jews) and righteous non-Jews will float up and up on the water to shomayim (Heaven). "The water will be a mikvah (spiritual cleansing) to clean out our tamei (sic) from all the tamei (impure) things we did." This will take away our yetzer hara (evil inclination). While we are visiting the highest levels of shomayim, the water will receed. Then "the Jews will come down in a single parachute", landing in Eretz Yisrael, then suddenly "each of us will be back in our place, like magic." We will remember everything we saw. This experience will make non-religious Jews want to do "half" the mitzvos when they come back down. The "holy fire" (below) will make them do the other half, as well.

There will be "holy fire" that will make righteous gentiles want to convert ("their last chance to convert before Moshiach") Those righteous gentiles who don't want to convert will be "forced" to convert by the "holy fire".

This "holy fire" will also "force" all non-observant Jews to accept the mitzvos of the Torah.

All Jews will have Yiras Shomayim (fear of Heaven), no matter how much or how little Torah they know. Even Jews who live far away from any Jewish community will experience this. "They will be protected also." Jews and righteous gentiles will know that this is Moshiach and will have no fear, even if they are ignorant of Torah. We will be happy and excited the whole time, beginning with "Erev Moshiach"

גמרא: בשישית קולות, בשביעית מלחמות, מוצאי שבת בן דוד בא.

shloime wrote:if something is going to happen in the next sukos, that would fit with the calculation that the seven years prior to moshiach started in 9/11/01. it does not say "in the 8th year the son of david will come", but rather:" in the going out of the 7th year" meaning as soon as the 7th year ends(just like motzaey shabos means right after shabbos). the 7th year ends before rosh hashono.sukkos is right after that.
can anyone bring up everything that was said regarding the 7 years before moshiach?

yehuda wrote:not so fast isaac
don't we also need MDY and eliyahu before MBD?

Maharsha explains that if Moshiach comes today, we assume that Eliyahu came yesterday to the Supreme Beth Din (in Tiberias).

Another explanation is that if we merit, and Moshiach comes sooner (before the appointed time), he may then come on his own before the revelation of Eliyahu. This is presented in Krayti U'playti (by Rabbi Yonason Eibschutz):[73]

Rambam posits[74] that it is not a certainty that Eliyahu must come before Moshiach. Although some Sages maintain that before the advent of Moshiach, Eliyahu will appear, yet, there is no definite basis for this.

This poses a difficulty, inasmuch as the Talmud states[75] that Eliyahu will come first, and as is seen in Tanach,[76] "Behold I send unto you Eliyahu the Prophet." How do we reconcile these two statements re: the coming of Eliyahu?

The answer is seen in the timing of Moshiach, as the Talmud cites the verse:[77] "In its time will I hasten it" - If Jews do not merit, Moshiach will come in his appointed time; but if they merit, then Moshiach will come sooner, in haste.

Rambam holds that there is an order to the coming of Moshiach, that Eliyahu comes first to foretell of his coming. This, however, is effective only when Moshiach comes in his appointed time. But when Jews merit and the redemption is hastened, as expressed in,[78] "He is leaping over the mountains, skipping over the hills" - G-d then changes the order, as a sign of His love for Jewish merits and good deeds. This is expressed in the Rambam's concise words.

The Sages note that Eliyahu comes first, to convey the news of Moshiach; yet, this is not definite. For, perhaps G-d will have mercy and bestow His holy spirit upon the Jews to serve Him with a full heart; then He will swiftly bring Moshiach without the need for Eliyahu's message.[79]


http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/hi ... ach/13.htm

YaakovNathan wrote:Perhaps Eliyahu already came and notified the Bais Din...

Maharsha explains that if Moshiach comes today, we assume that Eliyahu came yesterday to the Supreme Beth Din (in Tiberias).

Another explanation is that if we merit, and Moshiach comes sooner (before the appointed time), he may then come on his own before the revelation of Eliyahu. This is presented in Krayti U'playti (by Rabbi Yonason Eibschutz):[73]

Rambam posits[74] that it is not a certainty that Eliyahu must come before Moshiach. Although some Sages maintain that before the advent of Moshiach, Eliyahu will appear, yet, there is no definite basis for this.

This poses a difficulty, inasmuch as the Talmud states[75] that Eliyahu will come first, and as is seen in Tanach,[76] "Behold I send unto you Eliyahu the Prophet." How do we reconcile these two statements re: the coming of Eliyahu?

The answer is seen in the timing of Moshiach, as the Talmud cites the verse:[77] "In its time will I hasten it" - If Jews do not merit, Moshiach will come in his appointed time; but if they merit, then Moshiach will come sooner, in haste.

Rambam holds that there is an order to the coming of Moshiach, that Eliyahu comes first to foretell of his coming. This, however, is effective only when Moshiach comes in his appointed time. But when Jews merit and the redemption is hastened, as expressed in,[78] "He is leaping over the mountains, skipping over the hills" - G-d then changes the order, as a sign of His love for Jewish merits and good deeds. This is expressed in the Rambam's concise words.

The Sages note that Eliyahu comes first, to convey the news of Moshiach; yet, this is not definite. For, perhaps G-d will have mercy and bestow His holy spirit upon the Jews to serve Him with a full heart; then He will swiftly bring Moshiach without the need for Eliyahu's message.[79]


http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/hi ... ach/13.htm

As for Moshiach ben Yosef, this aspect of Moshiach is included within Moshiach ben Dovid, as explained in seforim, and depending on the nature of the geulah there need not be a separate experience of MBY at all. "Melech Hamoshiach" refers to MBD.